Following the Long Road: Aaron's Story

Introduction

In this episode of 100 Stories of Hope, Forrest sits down with long-time friend, patron of the arts, and Central Valley educator, Aaron Gomes. For years, Aaron's life revolved around creating community through his nonprofit that fostered the local music scene, his 20+ year career in education, and raising his 3 children with his wife Stephanie.  This past October, Aaron was ordained a Catholic Deacon; a vocational call that has reshaped much of his life.  

Episode Summary

Many of us live life looking for that one massive, undeniable "light switch" moment with God—the sudden transformation that changes everything in an instant. But what happens when your path looks less like a sudden flash of light and more like a long, steady walk through changing seasons?

Aaron opens up about his journey through what he calls "the long game" of the Christian walk. He shares how God used his deep roots in the local music community, his twenty years teaching fourth and fifth grade, and an unexpected family mission trip to Mexico to slowly fashion his heart for ministry.

When the world shifted during the pandemic, Aaron felt a powerful, magnetic pull to bring faith out of the church building and directly onto the streets. He shares a striking, pivotal moment from a bike ride along the local train tracks, where a simple tent with a spray-painted message completely changed how he viewed his purpose.

Without giving away the incredible details of the lives touched on those streets, Aaron and Forrest dive into a beautiful conversation about what it truly means to serve, why our personal failures and dry seasons are just as vital to our testimony as our mountain-top experiences, and how a mature perspective on faith frees us to simply show up and trust the process.

Whether you feel like you are standing on a spiritual mountaintop today, walking through a dry and quiet valley, or simply trying to figure out what God wants from your current season of life, Aaron’s story is a gentle, comforting reminder that you are exactly where you need to be.

Listen to the full episode to hear Aaron’s incredible perspective on faith, community, and the beauty of playing the long game with God.

Key Themes Explored:

• The Long Game of Faith: Shifting our perspective from temporary emotional highs to a lifelong, mature walk with God.
• Stepping Into the Light: How moving past comfort zones and showing up for others reveals Jesus in unexpected places.
• The Power of the Everyday Testimony: Validating the quiet, steady stories of faith and realizing that every path has a vital purpose in God's kingdom.
• Simplifying for the Spirit: Learning to weed out life’s noise and distractions to build daily habits of prayer and presence.

Transcript

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All right. Welcome back to another episode of the 100 Stories of Hope podcast. And today we have the good fortune to have my friend Aaron with us today. My name is Forrest, by the way, and this is Aaron. Yeah. Aaron goes. Yeah. We've had uh many interactions over the years in lots of unique ways. Most of them involve music. So uh I think most of my interactions starting off were just around the music scene that used to be kind of used to orbit around the cellar door, right? Was that the kind of main thing? Yeah, one of the arrows was definitely there. Yeah. And I'm sure there's other parts I missed. That thing is my main interactions. All those really good indie shows that I did for that one. Yeah. We missed season of life. And uh you also had Sound Envision, right? Is that still a thing? Uh kind of. I had to just because of prioritizing things and commitments, had to sort of step away. So I have like a board of directors and a new executive director and all that that still kind of do it, but it's not kind of you know what it was. It's kind of what's the quick elevator pitch on what Sound Envision is? Uh music, art, multicultural events for Central Valley that's always been kind of underserved in those areas. Um, you know, music lessons for kids and that kind of thing. Um concerts used to be more national touring and stuff when I was doing it, just to try to, I don't know, my wife and I um really appreciate the arts and music and stuff like that. And I used to tour a little bit in a small band, and then we started having kids, and it was like really um not, I just didn't want to be out, you know, shows and all that kind of stuff. So the idea was to maybe bring it to us to be able to do that and just kind of snowballed and it happened one year. I think we did over a hundred shows in a year. It's kind of crazy, so it was wild for a bit there as far as the I get a little carried when I get into something, I like kind of get 100% into it. So um you're also a teacher. Yeah, yeah. I've been in my wife and I have both been in education. I think I taught like fourth and fifth grade-ish, those areas for about 20 years. And then when COVID hit, I kind of got into more of a social emotional role, helping kids with behavior plans and things like that. And um, and then when we got that under control, now working with teachers to help them with their academics and things like that. So that's my um So you're a teacher of teachers? Yeah, yeah. That's good. Yeah, it's cool. All right, so since this is the Stories of Hope podcast, I hope you've got a story of hope for us today. Yeah, man. Um, I think you know, the the teaching job is something I do, obviously, but I feel like my main uh purpose in life, vocation, is what we call it is uh being a Catholic deacon. And um, you know, we raised three kids um just this weekend. The last one graduated college, so they're all kind of off into the world doing their things. Does that mean you're empty nesting at this point? Yeah, we've been for well, the last one went away to college. So for this is like our fourth year of MP nesting, which is Okay, you saw it. Yeah, which is like another way that God has really been working because um, you know, there's certain things. I guess some people have like their five-year plan all the time or whatever. And I admittingly maybe don't look super far into the future and plan a lot. Um, but God definitely knew what he was doing. Um as the kids were getting into like high school and stuff, um, one of them asked me to help out at their like a confirmation class in the Catholic Church. I'm at St. Aloysius and Teleri. Um, you know, since since Catholics do infant baptisms, the way that when they get older, if they want to decide that they fully want to be in the church rather than just a parent decision that they'll raise them in the church, you know, and it's at our it's generally like sophomore junior year, it's a two-year duration of classes, pretty intensive classes. Yeah. And so um, it's kind of that like, yeah, this is what I want. I want to move forward with this as an adult, you know. So it's kind of like um an installation of the Holy Spirit that um comes after the initial through baptism as a child. So my daughter asked me to help with that. And I'm like, oh wow, you know, I should, I'm not gonna say no, I gotta do this, right? So then sometimes you feel a little inadequate. I mean, I was a cradle Catholic, so I kind of knew all this stuff to some degree. Um, and I was like an altar boy the whole deal. But I felt like at that point in my life, like I was uh, you know, batting good batting average on attending mass and doing all of the normal things, but I always felt like at a young age, God was calling me to do something more. And I was kind of like uh Saint Augustine, which was like uh Saint Augustine, actually, which was like, uh, yeah, Lord, make me holy, but not yet. You know, there's like some things that I definitely wanted to do first or whatever. And so I was kind of pushing that away to some degree. And I think we all kind of have those moments where we kind of run from what God's asking us to do. So, anyway, long story short, um, my second one, Natalie, asked me to do this. And so I didn't want to halfway do it. So, you know, I'm doing all the studying and blah, blah, blah. So then I have a year of that. And then um, I think there my my son wanted to go on a trip to do like some mission work or something. And so that was through another church that wasn't even our church. And so we kind of sent my dad with them to make sure everything was cool because you want to make sure like all the teachings are right and that kind of thing. And uh, but it was like charity work, you know, and so my dad and him came back and loved it. So my second one went, and my third one was a little more of a sort of homebody, like not too sure, not as adventurous. So um to get her to go, I said, well, why not? What if I go with you? You know, so our whole family went, like the five of us went on this trip to Mexico to like do a house build and like a vacation Bible school, that kind of thing. And um, like just sort of out there in a moment of like prayer, like kind of literally on a hilltop kind of moment. I remember um hearing like uh reading um rivers of living water will flow out of you, you know, when you overfill with the Holy Spirit kind of thing, right? It was in John. And um, and I just remember kind of in a moment thinking back, my dad always led like um music at church, you know, with his guitar. And he would do this really neat thing where at the little school we were at in Joaquina, he was on the school board and he somehow ended up getting like 75% of the school into this little church, and he would catechize them in there. And and so I always had this like upbringing of faith. But um, I sort of had this flashback to him singing this like, I've got a river of life flowing out of me kind of thing, and all this emotive stuff started coming up. And then I remember turning around after I was reading it, getting walking back into the village, and that exact scripture was like it said Juan instead of John, because we were in Mexico, and that scripture was there in this depiction of the whole scene, and I was just like, Wow, this is like all this stuff. And so I go back in, and I just felt like at that moment, like um God was like calling me to like play a major role in our church when I got home, and um, it was super vivid, like clear. And so I went back and just like threw myself into all these different ministries and things. I was every night of the week doing something. Um yeah, and then um fast forward, all the kids graduate high school, and and this priest comes up to me and he's like, Man, Aaron, you seem like a deacon. Um, have you ever thought about being a deacon? And I'm like, no, I'm cool, you know. And uh I'd never really seen it modeled that much because in the Catholic Church, it's it's um it's ordained clergy, and you have to go to like, you know, it's like almost six years of spiritual formation, and um, you know, it's kind of like getting a master's in in a certain subject in college or something. Um so, anyways, I was just kind of trying to discern that. And um, at that time I was doing a lot of ministry with people that were unhoused and a lot of things like that kind of thing. I always um in the Catholic Church, you know, we have these different saints that we're sure in heaven because of works they've done in in um like in in this world, and so they kind of show paths that like common people can take to Christ. So every saint sort of points to Jesus and his walk, but maybe in a way that we can relate to. And so Saint Francis was always on my heart, and and his feast day is the day that Natalie was born, um which is October 4th. And um, he was kind of the one, I think a lot of people know him. He's kind of a popular one, but he was more of the like, he took the gospel very literally, like sell everything and go out with nothing but you know, your cloak and and um and just you know live off the people that you're ministering to and don't let anything kind of hold you to this world. And it was this complete abandon of self and total like servant's heart. And I I kind of really admired that and I wanted to do that, but I was thinking, you know, I have a family and all this stuff and these obligations. I can't just go like willy-nilly, like, you know, off the side of the cliff and just, you know, and I think that's why in the Catholic Church, you know, priests are married to the church, you know. Um, like Christ is the head of the church and the bride being, you know, the actual establishment itself of the church. And so um they can kind of serve on that level in that deep way. So I was like, maybe, you know, that's obviously I'm not gonna be a priest. I can't be a priest, but there's something there, you know. So I went back to that priest and I said, Yeah, you know, I think there is a calling here. And he goes, Oh, I'm sure of it. And this guy is like super holy, like, you know, saint on earth guy, and and just so insightful. I really think the world of him. He's actually now uh vocations director for the Fresno Diocese. So he's like the guy that's in charge of the seminarians and training priests. So he definitely has that eye for people's giftings and stuff. And so he goes, No, I'm sure of it, but not at my church. And I was like, Oh, just got crushed, you know. He's like, Yeah, that's a thing, but not here. And at that time, at that time I was leading like a music ministry at his church and doing like a prayer meeting for senior citizens, people that were going through some struggles. And um, so he goes, You keep praying about it, you'll know where you need to be. And so I did. And uh the other church that I was at was St. Aloysius, which is the other Catholic church of the two in Tulary. Um, but the priest there, Father uh Monsignor Rick, um, had never had a deacon and it was he'd been there for you know 30 some odd years. And he's not a normal thing. Not normal. Usually people move around a little more. Um, he has a school there that he was in charge of, and so he kind of really kind of wanted to to invest in that community and make it his his work lifelong, you know. And so the diocese got behind that. And um, generally priests can kind of decide, you know, how they want help or don't want help or something. And he was kind of one of those guys saying, Oh, just let me do my thing, you know? And so they'd always kind of the diocese would be like, Hey, you know, think about a deacon, like it could help you a lot with different day-to-day stuff. And he was always like, you know, politely no. So when I came to him, I said, Hey, you know, I'm I really feel this calling. And and he goes, Yeah, I don't think you're old enough. I'm like, no, no, I'm old enough, you know. I checked, and so he's like, he's like, Well, well, think about it, whatever. And so, like a day or two passes, and he he has me in and we're talking, and and sort of from there on, it was just like um really cool. Just kind of expedited and and I started investing more in all the families, and so I kind of grew up like way out in this little country town, Joaquina. So I didn't really know all the city people and stuff. So I was always yeah, I was kind of an outside err. And so it was kind of like coming in now through all this. I've met tons of people, and it's been a real blessing. Like, and but you know, talking about the timing of it all and saying the five-year plan, not having it was all like by the time I was ordained, it was right when the kids were leaving. And it was like God was giving me this new sort of flock, you know what I mean? Yeah, you were mentioning earlier, just like I can't, you know, I obviously can't be a priest, but I can't do this either. I got like yeah, I have all these things tying me down here, these worldly responsibilities. God's time, yeah. And uh yeah, I like I like that. He's like, well, no, what yeah. I remember one sort of pinnacle moment in that was when I started um going out into the um during COVID, the churches were shut down for a little bit, and the church was trying to be obedient to you know what everything was happening at the time. And so that's when I had sort of taken a bike ride out to the train tracks by my house where everybody was in tents and stuff. And I remember going, that was the first time I went out, and I remember going, like, I'm just gonna push my bike down this railroad tracks and just kind of look and see what's going on because I was feeling this call to go out there and I didn't want to go. I was just like, why is this like you know, on my heart? I like felt like almost a magnetic pull. And I'm not like particularly like, you know, a sweet, like caring person or anything. It wasn't like something that was totally in my nature. Um, I remember my mom, as mothers do, sometimes reminding me that she used to take my kids to McDonald's before school while my wife and I were teaching, she'd take them to school for us and she'd have them feed some people that were always at McDonald's. And I remember she reminded me at one time, I was like, man, mom, you shouldn't like take the kids up to people like that. Like something could happen. You know, she just parents kind of reality check you, you know, because later I was so involved in all this. She's like, Do you remember when? I was like, Yeah, you'd bring that up. So, yeah, anyway, being out at those at those tracks, I said, I'm just gonna push my bike and pretend like I was coming from Bakersfield to Fresno and just peek, you know, along the train tracks to look kind of, you know, just nondescript and cruise. And I remember like it was kind of like one of those obvious things where I'm pushing the bike, and to my left over my shoulder is the steeple, uh, the cross over St. Aloysius, and then to my right down the train tracks, completely lined up on either side of me, one side the church, the other side was this tent and spray painted on it said, a touch of grace can heal. And I was like, Okay, Lord, I guess this is where I'm going in. So I I walked down in, I pushed my bike in. I just told this woman there, you know, hey, I'm not sure why I'm here, but I feel like God, like, I know it sounds weird, but like called me here. And um, she's like, Well, what makes you think we need help? The son of man had nowhere to lay his head. And I'm like, Oh Lord, you're not gonna make this easy on me, you know? So I ended up going in and kind of chatting with her and and her boyfriend, and and uh long story short, it just there was about 80 some odd people out in that at that time and kind of dispersed, and I got to know everybody's name and just was going out every day and I was taking like as many burritos as I could just to start conversation. And um over the duration of years, we you know started kind of trying to get people into rehabilitation programs or housing or into different different church communities and things. And that particular person is a drug counselor now. It was really cool here in Visalia. Was she living out there? Yeah, yeah. She was I don't want to say too much about her because if people connected somehow, but there was a lot of like yeah, rough things happening out there. Like I walked into some scenes that were just wild. Like I it was a crazy ride. Like um yeah, it was like there were moments where you probably weren't like super safe, and I was kind of like not going out there with like sanctioned groups. There was just like a group of like five of us that would like pray at the house for covering and then just go out and use us God, we're instruments, you know. And we saw some amazing things happen out there, and we saw some scary stuff out there too. But um, yeah through that process, like God showed me, you know, I kind of grew up in a family that was very um spiritual and um everything was very it was a nice upbringing. I didn't have a lot of any trauma or anything like that, right? So God took me out there, I think, to give me perspective on other people's walks. And and now in ministry, as I'm doing a lot of grief counseling or couples therapy or um talking to um just millions of scenarios, right? When people need spiritual advising. It's like through education and seeing all these different families and then going out into those extreme situations of the streets. I have like all these relationships. Like I've literally been around people when they died, like they've died with me being the only person there, like out there, you know, like crazy connections that like broadened my heart to see Jesus in places that I never thought I would see him, and more so than like places where you'd expect him to show up, you know what I mean? Yeah. Um and so I think that season, if you want to use that term, really kind of fashioned my heart to be um ready for the diaconate, which as a deacon, um, we're Christ the servant, you know, like our logo is um Christ washing people's feet. So, like our role is to like be the least and to journey with people in pain. And and so, like, my whole thing with this was to talk about not like so much a moment, but like the long game of the Christian walk. And I think sometimes people can get hung up on these like moments on the hill, or like when I was feeling this because of this song or emotions, and we can sensationalize God in a way that like he was really here, he showed up. The problem with that, of course, like you know, is like what about when like your like little spiritual high runs out, right? Yeah. So it's really to have a mature perspective on um the walk with God and to think about Jesus, right? Like, how was his walk, right? Like how many disappointments did he have? How many times, you know, did things not go his way? Or, or disciples that like, you know, had dry seasons and spells of like feeling like, where are you, God? You know, we have those all the lamentations and the psalms and things. It's all part of the walk, you know? And so sometimes when I'm called over to a house, I was just thinking last week I was with this woman, always had this really strong faith. And then she's like in this time where she's older and her body's falling apart, and she's just like, you know, how is this happening? You know, why where is God kind of thing? And I'm like, man, I remember when she was so I had to remind her of some certain things. And sometimes we all need those reminders. I think that's why we all like rely on each other, right? None of us have all the pieces, like, and that's why he's the head and we're the body, right? And all the parts have to be assembled. None of us can do it alone, you know, no matter how you know, devout you are or militant or whatever. And then it's a team sport, so yeah, yeah. That's uh I I love that because there's just recently in the small group at my church that I'm in, we're having the conversation. I think I was saying something, I was kind of lamenting my testimony. Yeah, I was like, I wish I had that big light switch moment. Yeah, that big like I was here and then God, now I'm here. Yeah, but I have this boring, I've been a Christian in my entire life, kind of and then the guy who has that light switch story looked at me and he's like, No, man, like we need your testimony. Yeah, we need that long suffering, yeah, been in it the whole time. That's like that's really um encouraging for me to hear that kind of story. And he's like, I don't know why you think that's boring. And then I was like, Okay, boring to you because it's your it's the grass is greener or whatever, or it's not isn't it doesn't it's not a two-minute sales pitch is easy, or yeah, yeah. So I I definitely made me more thankful for and I'm definitely thankful it'd be similar to your story, raised in a Christian family. And yeah, and uh I love having that kind of long bedrock and that kind of legacy of faith in my family. Absolutely grateful for that. Yeah, uh, but yeah, every once in a while you're like you'll hear that guy get up front and tell us like that's a testimony. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like God has to get extreme in certain situations and other ways. I know, I mean, I think there's a real blessing in having the foundations if you're someone that's been growing up in the faith and you've had, you know, it's the whole thing like scripturally, like not many should be teachers because you're held to a high standard. I think like when you have that kind of a background, there's a responsibility to do something with it, right? Like that's why we don't judge, right? And God has a certain way, He's gonna judge everybody based on what he gave them, you know? It's like, what did you do with this investment, you know? Um that's your earlier uh yeah, I want to do this, but not right now. Yeah, yeah. It was like if you start giving me responsibility, or if I start into this, you're gonna give me more responsibility and like Yeah. And you feel like you're when you're a kid, I mean, everyone's different, but for me personally, I felt I know my personality, and when I get into something, it's like full frontal assault, you know? Yeah. So I still sort of wanted to, and God knows what he was doing. I mean, I wasn't mature enough to do the responsible, the responsibility that he's given me now. I I couldn't even have taken on then. So it's like we were talking earlier, you know, once you get hindsight, you're like, oh, that's why this happened. Because your initial thing is once you get really on fire for God and like you surrender your life fully, you're like, there's this piece of you sometimes that's like, why didn't this happen sooner? And you're like looking back and you're like, I wasn't ready. Like all these things happened in my life to prepare me for that. And some of them seemed like curves and meanders, but they all taught me something or gave me like testimonies or ways to relate to people that God's gonna put my path because I truly believe that we're all like put on this earth to work with and help other people get to heaven ourselves first. But um, there's people that I can reach that no one else can, and there's people that you can reach that no one else can, and that's part of the Christian walk, right? Is like you know, just kind of trying to be present to that and try to be like in tune with the spirit and discern all the time like where your next spot should be. Because then like you can get comfortable and complacent with a certain thing too. Like I really like I don't know, music or something's always been a thing for me. And it's nice to just sit and play guitar or whatever. And like that's not how God wants me to be using me right now. So it's been moving and growing me into places where maybe they're not like my favorite things to do, but that that's where we're at now, you know. Yeah, I've been a lot of thinking recently about um I think this current job here at Spirit Radio. Um it's hard to think about in God's economy what he would do and what he would put in place and the string of events that he would line up to get to somebody could be for one person, could be one time. All it took is one little time. Yeah, for the other guy over here, it could take literal millions of dollars and 60 years and 90 people and all this effort to get this one guy. But for him, it's like drop in the bucket. Yeah. And so it's it's it's interesting to look at that and it's easy. Discount your situation that I'm just doing whatever job, or yeah, I'm not working in administration, I'm not doing anything important. Um, yeah, but you're exactly where God wants you to be, hopefully. And you're he like there's he's the opportunity to use you in ways you have no clue. There's a moment when you just were kind to somebody walking on the street was a big pivotal moment for that person. You know, yeah. So you know, even when you surrender your life like in that way, I think even in like our failings and in moments, like he uses all of us, right? So, like, you know, we all have like a certain mindset that like, you know, we always are like in the Catholic Church, you know, we use confession as sort of a reset to try to um purify and sanctify ourselves and really work on the little cracks in our castle because we all have predisposition for sin, obviously. And most of us, it's like the same type of sin, you know, that we battle all the time. Yeah. Um, and so it's interesting because God like works through those moments too, and all those things. He uses the good, the bad, the ugly, and everything. So I think maybe one day when we are able to see our lives, you know, after this time on earth, we might be like amazed at the times like that we were maybe like operating on his grand scheme outside of space and time, you know, in a way that was so much more pivotal than something that we went home that night and we said that was really good, you know, because he uses everything for his greater glory. And that's that's kind of a mind blow just to like you know that you just have to show up and and put in, you know, your best. I have uh I've I think about that frequently. I was think about that moment when you get to heaven and there's some sort of judgment, there's some sort of moment, right? Yeah, and so uh, and so I was I'm always feeling like myself, I'm hoping that I wasn't as bad as I think I was. Yeah, but then I also think, well, I hope there's a chance that like I actually my life was way more impactful than I had any clue about. Yeah, and so it I it it's a little bit terrifying, but you know, I look forward to that moment to kind of see like what was all the ways that God was yeah in and around my life. Yeah. Um that I had I get no credit for, yeah, just this vessel that I mean pass through. Yeah, that's a that's a really good point that you bring up the no credit for because I think sometimes people in ministries like they tend to, like we all do in a human way, is like compare like our walk with other people. And not only is like comparison like the total killer of joy, but like that wasn't your lane. That was never supposed to be for you. So that's a that's a tough thing sometimes for some people, you know. Um, I kind of have I don't know where it comes from, maybe some childhood thing or something, but I always have this thing where I want to accomplish something, you know, and I want to see like the tangible results. And sometimes, like we know in scripture, like you're just like planting seeds and you don't get to see that, you know. That's that's for someone else to water and see the fruit. So you got to get to where it's not your ministry. And then when it's not your ministry and you don't take pride in it, like I said, you just show up and do it, then you're so much more liberated because you you're not like holding yourself to like some regard or something, right? Yeah. And I think sometimes we judge ourselves so hard that we don't allow God's grace to like operate in our lives. I know some people that like they're they don't forgive themselves, even though God's forgiven them, they've gone through the process, and it's just like, man, like don't let like the enemy get in your head and stifle you in that way. That's not the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit's uh Mo is to like put you in a corner and keep beating you up for the same thing. That's not what Jesus died for, you know. Um so just being able to live in that headspace frees you up to um be so much more productive in cooperation with the spirit. Yeah, I uh it's funny. I'm I'm definitely still a young man by any measure, but um, as I'm getting a little older, I'm about halfway through my 40s. Yeah. It's funny when I was younger, I was like wanted to storm the gates, you know? I'm gonna do all these things and I'm gonna build all these things and I'm gonna have this amazing life. And it's funny how it's it's starting, I can feel it pivoting to like, I'm passing this on. Yeah. Like I need to make sure the next group is ready to go. And I need to make sure they have what they need and yeah, and they find Christ and they have the tools and they're ready to go. And then I can take something that I just kind of like because I started thinking about that as I was mentioning earlier, that like that testimony of mine, which it feels like it's kind of like the like that long suffering kind of thing. Yeah, but I started thinking about like how far back that thread goes, and like thinking about my grandparents and just all the way back thousands of years, sure. And somebody faithfully passed it on to the next person. And I was like, that's hard work, yeah, that's important work. So I started feeling really excited about just doing that. If I can just do that, yeah, that's awesome. It doesn't need to be grand or exciting that I'll still take grand and exciting if it shows up. Yeah, that's awesome, man. Yeah, what a great perspective to have the long game like that. We think in such short terms, right? I always tell people when they're like in a time of like super like um desolation, you know, and they're looking for consolation. I always tell them, man, you're trying to read like one page of a book and get like all the story out of it, right? And it's like a novel, you know, the whole your whole life. And um, but we can get caught so in a minute. But how long did it take like God to fully reveal Jesus Christ, right? You know, just when you look through all the the Jewish scriptures and everything, all the way up into the New Testament, it's like we weren't ready as humans for that full revelation. He had to like civilize us and slowly draw us into his heart. And it was like through so many covenants that we had to finally get there. So it's the same with our life. I mean, it's a process, it's a long game thing. That's kind of the one of the big differences, I think, between the like the Catholic perspective and a lot of Protestant faiths, not all, but some are kind of like, you know, when were you saved? You know, and it was like this day, and now I know I'm in heaven and all that. And we've talked about this. But I think, I think really it's a it's a long salvation's unpacked over our lifetime, you know. Um, and that that perspective um in some ways is consoling because um, you know that God's using all the moments. Um, but I know people like definitive moments because it's easier to wrap your head around and it's black and white, you know. But um, God operates in such complexities that um we only get little glimpses and little pieces of it, no matter how much of a scholar or theologian we are. Um I come back to all the time to that kind of the way of thinking about that is like your kid at the checkout stand at Save Mart. He wants that king-sized candy bar. And yeah, you know why that's not good for him and why he can't have it. Yeah, um, yeah. He has no clue. You just you just keep you just yeah depriving. Why didn't my prayer get answered? It was for the Snicker bar. Yeah. And um, and I I am probably way worse off than that, actually, in comparison to God and my understanding of what's actually going on and what he's really up to. Yeah. And so it's just good to for me to be like put myself in the place I I belong and trust that he knows what he's doing. Yeah, stay in your lane and and try to find a way to kind of get a strong like life of prayer so that you can escape like everything and just be with God. Like for us, it was we had a little bit of a it wasn't huge by any means, but we had like a you know a two-story house with kids and everything, and we just started simplifying and selling off and just a lot of things and just have this small little house by the church and trying to like really weed out the things that we didn't need in our life because it all became like a distraction from the things that matter, and trying to discern like what do I really need to be happy and uh happy in the sense of communing with God and feeling like I'm making the most of this time right now because it's so finite when you realize like this is just this little moment in time compared to eternity, you're like, Well, how can I like maximize this time uh for the long game? And for me, it was like yeah, just cutting out a lot of different things in life and discerning where and when. Um and then just for me being Catholic, like the Mass and the Eucharist, like we really believe is a source of um you know power for our pilgrimage, like here on earth. So spending time there, um it changed everything when I started going to masses in the mornings before school, and and I probably do uh about six masses now. I celebrate um throughout the week. And it just, oh man, it's so good um to just have that time alone with God. And then it puts me in a space when I go to work that I'm ready for whatever comes my way. I don't go with any kind of anxiety or anything, it's good perspective. Yeah, those little spiritual disciplines that carry way more weight than we give them credit for, they seem so trivial and so small individually. Yeah, and using our creature of habit ness to like put some good habits in and just make those the habits. I find during like during Lent before Easter when a lot of people, you know, like kind of try to like um get a little more spiritually in tune during that time, like it's a great time to sort of refocus. And 40 days, as you see over and over in scripture, is like a time of like you know, calling and restoration and then transformation. So I always find like 40 days, even in habit forming for people, yeah, it can create new habits. So it's really nice to, you know, if it seems like something's like so not in your nature, well, just what about if you did it for a week? What if you did it for two weeks? The next thing you know, you've like built up this muscle to do the thing, you know? Um yeah, that's always been a cool thing is the liturgical calendar of the church builds these moments for things like that every year. And I love that. I love I I bucked like um um structure and um you know, things that are like sort of already set up for you. And because I always was like the skateboarder kid growing up, you know, kind of uh revel without a cause in the country, knew I didn't want to be on the dairy, and so I always had this like knee-jerk reaction against anything that was structured and too. Yeah, so that the the way the church is set up like that, that was always kind of a foreign thing. But with that surrender and realizing that thousands of years of like church history has like so much more knowledge than a 30-year-old was a reality check, you know, and a good one. Yep, that's uh but I'm not 30 now, I'm 50. Goes quick, man. Um all right, let's put a bow on this. Yeah, so a couple things. One, I wanna say, and we've talked about this too. I I would love because I as you were just talking through your um your faith in the Catholic Church, I found myself just wanting to ask and pull a lot of threads because I find it really fascinating. It's not something I have a lot of experience with. Yeah. So I'd love to talk to you about that further, but that's a different podcast. Oh, yeah, that's that would be my favorite. I love uh that early church fathers and just liturgical things and all that. It's my favorite. Yeah, there's there's a lot there. Yeah, it's it's really fascinating. So um, hey man, I appreciate you coming out. This is really fun. I hope we didn't rabbit trail too much for you all listening out there. Yeah, but this has been a blast. Appreciate you. Yeah, hey, thank you, Force, for letting me come in and talk. Sometimes I don't think about all these things, and it's good sometimes to sit and remember the journey and puts puts things into perspective a little more. So um that's my real hope in prayer for this podcast is that uh that's why we picked a hundred because it seems like an audacious number. It's a it's a big amount of, you know, yeah. So I'm just hoping that if we can unpack 100 stories like this, and then why stop there, really? You know, but yeah, totally um that well, we all can just collectively get something out of this. We can all see each other's stories and from different angles and different perspectives and different like everything and just kind of get a bigger, fuller picture of who God is and and what he's up to. So yeah, that being said, um, if if anyone ever wanted to call for prayer or to get together or anything or share stories, um, I'm definitely down to like leave my number and stuff. It's just like 559-331-0045. And then maybe we can just pray out our listeners. Is that cool? Yeah, please. Yeah, Father, Son, Holy Spirit, amen. Oh Lord, we just thank you for the opportunity to gather together today and um share some words. I thank you for Forrest um opening up all these lives to everybody he's interviewing and um giving these testimonies into the world. Um, hopefully um somebody out there uh connects with these different, different interviews and realizes that we're all one body and we're all kind of just trying to find our way. And we ask you uh put all the listeners, put all the people in place for them to journey closer to your heart. We ask this all in the name of the Father, Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Amen. Thanks, Forrest. Appreciate it, man. Yeah, good task.